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Post by Ernie Parker on Sept 17, 2016 15:55:15 GMT
Aloha, all. I've spoken with Valentina Lemay and got clearance to post this across the board, rather than just for my Livewire gang. Cheers for that, Leila. I've spoken to a couple of people over the past few days about the weird cycle that goes on between handlers and feds, where handlers pretend to read every word of a results show, so the feds feel compelled to write entire shows from start to finish, in order to cater to their audience. Of course, in reality, those handlers who pretend are not reading anything other than their match, or the end of their match, and then saying "Great job on the results, guys! Wonderful read!" Lol. So a show that took the fed 10-12 hours to write has only taken the handler 5-10 minutes to read when, had they read everything, would take a solid hour. There's something totally counterproductive about that, I'm sure you'd all agree. So how do you read show results? Be totally honest here, too. What I want to do (and from our chat, what Leila also wants to do) is cater to our audience. If handlers don't like summarised results then we have no business giving it to them. Conversely, if handlers don't tend to read full shows, then why are we sitting and wasting time writing them? If handlers were totally upfront, honest and transparent about their reading preferences/habits, then feds could (and should) accommodate the majority and have a more functional fed. After all, imagine how much better feuds would be if every handler knew what was going on because their interest was held for an entire show? Imagine how much more invested we'd all be to angles and stories if we've been following them? Don't hide anything for the sake of self preservation. Nobody is judging you here. If you only read the end of your match, ignore all segments not relating to you and then read the "here is your winner" section of every other match, then say so. I guess what we want is to create a system that works for everyone (or at least the majority) where they can enjoy a full show without becoming bored or skimming content, a move that ultimately means they miss out on some important info. The floor is yours! P.S - I've just read this back and it sounds like I'm on my soap box and being a little defensive/negative! That's the furthest thing from my intentions, by the way - I swear! Lol. I just want to shape the fed results to the audience we have, rather than the audience we think we have. It works out much better for everyone in the long run. You don't want to be six months down the road and problems arise because staff are burnt out from writing shows that nobody reads because we didn't bother to even enquire about our audience. |
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Post by Aidan Carlisle on Sept 17, 2016 16:07:59 GMT
I thought that the summarized results for the first Livewire were pretty much perfect for what the show is.
My reading habits vary a lot based on how tired I am when the show goes up. Generally I skim the rest of the show, read my match through to the end for the surprise to see who won, and then I'll go back and read the show more in depth when I have time/feel like it. I do tend to go through segments because I like to know what angles/stories are going on.
The length of results is a tough one. I've been on both sides of the fence; a reader trying to sort through a lot of writing, and a writer feeling like I need to do the RPers justice. As an RPer, if I put out a 5k RP (or two) that I busted my ass on, I'm admittedly kind of disappointed if the match in the results is super short. When I'm writing matches, I feel like I'm short changing people that put in a lot of effort if I'm giving them less than a thousand words, and even then that's not very much.
Just my two cents.
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Post by Connor Jacobs on Sept 17, 2016 16:21:43 GMT
Here's how things usually work for me. Most of the feds I'm in, results go up while I am at work, so at first glance I generally just skim them really quick. But yes my main focus is reading my match as quick as I can on a break just to see if I win or lose. Then I close it out. I do come back to it later however and read it more in depth to get what's going on, maybe not the very next day depending on how tired or busy I am with personal things in my life. Sometimes it's not easy to have just an hour to sit down and read results, and really focus on the material. I couldn't tell you the last time I actually got to read a book I've been interested in. But yes I read the results when I get the chance. My feeling on how matches should be written is entirely in the hands of the people participating in the matches. Say you have two roleplayers who max out word count and quantity...I would fully expect to read a top notch back and forth battle that could be an extensive read. Now the other end of that. You have two people who maybe did one rp and barely put forth much effort and it was apparent, then I think their match should be a bit quicker. Not saying they did a bad just saying that in my opinion results should be written on a basis of you get what you put into it. The results are fantastic and you can really see how much time and effort everyone puts into each and every detail of it. In my opinion that's how you bring people into a fed. By having a staff that cares and puts the effort into the results, and not only that does things like this where they engage the people in the fed and want to know how things make people feel. You're reaching out to the people that write for you and that shows that you care. I like this place. From top to bottom it's top notch and I want to see nothing but success for it. So there is my opinion. Keep up the good work you guys got me hooked!  |
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Post by Trixie on Sept 17, 2016 16:29:56 GMT
I do read the entire show, I read parts and write my 'feedback' (more of a reaction) on what stands out to me. I do hate when results get spoiled for me through messages, because I like reading a full show, no matter the length of the matches or segments, following it from start to finish, when I turn up in it I find out by reading what happens from start to that moment and keep going.
I liked the summary style a lot myself, on a few matches (Van and Dick's, Zack's and Cy's) I felt a bit down the header said Final Moments because they are well written and have a little story flow in them.
But I don't want to force a long read on people if they don't like it. I'm happy to compromise to the community if they want shorter matches or whatever style. I don't really mind, I'm content with a nice story.
I do agree, it would be very fun with everyone knowing all the angles and storylines going on. I enjoyed the kickstart of story, trying to guess (sometimes quite farfetched but good) what's going to happen (specifically Jill's attacker which I know has a couple people guessing),
Long-Story Short: I read the full show but I am happy to have smaller show reads, I am not fussed.
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Post by Zack Fantana on Sept 17, 2016 16:33:19 GMT
The summarized results for Livewire went above and beyond what I expected. I know you've already said that match summaries will likely be shorter in the future and I think that's appropriate for the microfed side of things. With the way they were written for Livewire (the jump cuts to later in the match), you could easily shorten them a bit more and not miss a beat in storytelling.
I usually spoil the show results for myself by skimming at first. I can't help it. That's just what I do, and then I go back through and read the entire thing to keep up on storylines (it might be the same day or a day or two later).
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Post by Finn Whelan on Sept 17, 2016 16:33:24 GMT
So, I'm in the general consensus that everyone else is in. Because results go up sometime in the evening, I generally am getting ready to sleep so I can wake up and see all my little monsters the next morning with at least some form of fixed smile expression on my face. I skim through to see the actual results, and then read my match, then I close out and head to bed. The next day, when I have time, I'll open it up and actually read everything from front to end, unless I truly do not give a royal shit about the characters (it happens).
I guess I would echo T'angela here in saying that the amount of effort placed in writing the matches should be in what was done for the matches. There have been many times I've "maxed" out my roleplays, and my opponent has not, and thus, my match is a lot shorter than some of the other ones. It's disheartening to see, but at the same time, it makes sense. Why bother typing up extensive results when people aren't putting forth effort?
I'm happy to read results, but it's not something I sit there and go through for every little thing immediately. I use details from the results in my writing later on, so that I can make it connect, and I think that's when I realize that I really do enjoy having full results. Having the detailed results is awesome, but I'm also not going to be super upset if summarized is what is done. And really, it's about what time you all have to put into it. When staff reflects what we write, that's all I care about.
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Post by Felix Hartley on Sept 17, 2016 16:43:27 GMT
I'm all about the summaries.
I think the number one reason anybody reads the results is to a) see who won, and b) familiarize themselves with the ongoing storylines. The same is true for myself. I'll take a few different glances at the results, the first time will be a general overview. Get a feel for what happened, what the show looks like, who won. After you get the excitement out of the way (or, depending on how it went, disappointment) it's easier to go back and digest the full effect of the show.
Segments are important because they tell the stories of the characters you're interested in, and like Erin said, sometimes you skip a few and sometimes you don't. All depends on what interests you and what kind of things you like to see. Everybody is different that way, but segments allow everyone an equal opportunity to actually get their stories out there and play them out as the shows continue.
That being said, I'm all about summarized matches. I'm not entirely upset if I do "max out" but I don't get a full, 20 minute match-up, and that's just me. My focus is on the development of the stories, and seeing everything play out as it goes. Not too interested in the in-between, which is why summarized matches and summarized results are ideal for me.
It's the same as if we were actually watching WWE Raw one night. If it's Live, you don't really have a choice but to sit through the three hour programming. But if you've DVR'd it, you can fast-forward through some of the angles you're not too into or some of the matches that don't have you quite as hyped. It happens.
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Post by Jack Owyns on Sept 17, 2016 17:10:50 GMT
I’m not picky. Summarized or fully written, either or works for me.
For me personally, when I read a show from top to bottom, I try my hardest to read everything but sometimes I find myself only reading dialogue and skipping all the description. For matches, I do find myself quite regularly jumping sentences and even sometimes paragraphs when I read them. I read a good chunk of the shows, but I do have the habit of skipping certain parts that don’t keep me entertained. I have a really bad attention span, but I do try my hardest to read everything. If people put the effort into writing something, I do try my best to put my effort into reading it.
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Post by Quintin Blood on Sept 17, 2016 19:01:56 GMT
I have always went to the end of my match to just see a winner. I don't worry about reading the show until the next day. When I RP, I read segments, previous RPs, and for my own purpose I go back over my opponents previous matches from other results. I end up eventually reading the results twice, but the second time focusing heavily on anything my opponent did in the most recent match they had to pick away at it in a RP.
For Victory, bigger show. Those who don't read the show entirely miss out on stuff that can really help their RPs. There's always looking at the judging guidelines. But, those judging guidelines don't help anything if the handler doesn't do the rest. It really is the handlers loss in their next RP if they didn't read results. It does show.
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Post by Dick Devereaux on Sept 17, 2016 20:05:17 GMT
I usually skim through the whole show first looking for things that pop out at me. Then I read my full match and see what happens there. Eventually I'll go back And read everything, but I do skim some of the show for characters I don't really care for. But usually I read the majority of the show just tonsee what's happening around me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 20:41:04 GMT
I prefer summaries.
When I read, I read all the segments but matches if they are fully written I skim through. Mostly because in the few years I have been fedding most of the matches end up reading the same as every other match I have read before. That's not an insult to the writers at all. I have one friend who writes AMAZINGLY descriptive matches and I still end up speed reading them.
When I face someone, I will go back and read their matches for material to read.
with summaries, you get the gist of the match without needing to skim over it. That being said, when I made my show comments on Livewire it was all based on the awesome segments. Which I have always been a fan of Davey's creativity. This week due to my own exhaustion I did just skip to the winners but normally I will read summary matches completely.
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Candy
EOW Regular
The Sweet Treat
Posts: 99 
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Post by Candy on Sept 18, 2016 5:49:40 GMT
I personally prefer summarized results. What you did with the first Livewire suited me just fine. I've never been a fan of long drawn out matches that take me forever to read. I usually get bored halfway through and then not want to read the rest. With that being said, I'll usually look through results for anything pertaining to my character just because I can't wait to see what happened. Then once I get over the excitement or disappointment (whatever the case may be) then I'll go back through to read what went down with everyone else. Sometimes, I'll even go back a third time if I remember something happening but need specifics for a roleplay. But again, I really liked how the first show was done with matches and segments alike. I don't think you need to change a thing as I'm really digging this place. |
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